Thursday, July 13, 2017

Lies and consequences

Matthew Yglesias makes an obvious point:   one of the key problems with the Trump administration has been the willingness of many in it to lie about Russian contacts, when the Russians know they are lying, setting up potential blackmail material.

The only counter to that argument is that Trump is virtually un-blackmailable to his rusted on supporters - they're too stupid and uninterested in ethics to care about Putin.   Conservatives both in America and here think he's cool because he's down on Muslims and gays - he's a tough man who get things done -  they're not going to dump Trump even if they knew Trump personally had secret contact with Putin and was lying about it.   They would just say "Obama and Hillary did just as bad." 

As for Jason Soon's (hi there) cavalier attitude to Russia, Putin and (apparently) political murder - here's a couple of things for him to consider (apart from psychoanalysis to make sure there really is no subconscious Putin man-crush going on there)

*  a couple of articles, such as this one, have noted that for a few years now,  RT has developed a very friendly attitude to American libertarians.  Not hard to see the Kremlin's interest there, if libertarians are true to their American isolationist views.

*   Reason, on the other hand,  has a recent article "Russia's Global Anti-Libertarian Crusade" making the very reasonable argument that Putin's geo-political interests and philosophy are certainly against libertarian, liberal, principles on how governments should conduct themselves, and gives recent examples of Russian interference in the Balkans, etc.  

Here are two key paragraphs:
One of the surreal twists of the past year in American politics has been the rapid realignment in attitudes toward Russia. Democrats, many of whom believe that Russian interference was key to Donald Trump's unexpected victory last November, are now the ones sounding the alarm about the Russian threat. Meanwhile, quite a few Republicans—previously the keepers of the anti-Kremlin Cold War flame—have taken to praising President Vladimir Putin as a strong leader and Moscow as an ally against radical Islam. A CNN/ORC poll in late April found that 56 percent of Republicans see Russia as either "friendly" or "an ally," up from 14 percent in 2014. Over the same period, Putin's favorable rating from Republicans in the Economist/YouGov poll went from 10 percent to a startling 37 percent.
 and:
Nonetheless, there is a real Russian effort to counter American—plus NATO and E.U.—influence by supporting authoritarian nationalist movements and groups, such as Le Pen's National Front, Hungary's quasi-fascist Jobbik Party, and Greece's neo-Nazi Golden Dawn. Today's Russia is no longer just a moderately authoritarian corrupt regime trying to maintain its regional influence. Cloaked in the mantle of religious and nationalist values, the Kremlin positions itself as a defender of tradition and sovereignty against the godless progressivism and the migrant hordes overtaking the West. It has a global propaganda machine and a network of political operatives dedicated to cultivating far-right and sometimes far-left groups in Europe and elsewhere.

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

30,000 emails go missing, server scrubbed against any evidence, $2.6 million going from the Saudis to the foundation, $500,000 from Russia to the former president. Truckload of evidence to Crooked's collusion.

But hey, look over there. Trump's sone met with a Wussian Lawyer. This is delusion of Paxtonian proportions.

Steve said...

And yet after umpteen highly partisan Congressional investigations and the FBI looking into it, Hillary's legally in the clear. Huh.

Anyway, as if to prove my point - it's always a handwave "but, but, look at what Breitbart, Gateway Pundit and Fox News conspiracy theories against Hillary."

Hillary left herself open to conspiracy mongering about donations to her Foundation - but the amount of proven lying she ever did was next to nothing compared to the routine proven lies of Trump, Trump Jnr, Flynn in the space of a year or so.

Anonymous said...

Crooked invented lying, you goose. And knock off the superiority shtick as it doesn't work with me.

Steve said...

Stop repeating every wingnut conspiracy theory ever promulgated against Clinton, then.

And for someone who thinks Trump's policies are fantastic, I'm waiting to see how you react to the trade war he wants to start.

Anonymous said...

Stop repeating every wingnut conspiracy theory ever promulgated against Clinton, then.

I can't recall the last time I ever watched Fox News of read Breibart. That's pretty funny coming from someone who seems to get his news from the Guardian, quotes tubbster, Yglesias and Slate all the time.

And for someone who thinks Trump's policies are fantastic, I'm waiting to see how you react to the trade war he wants to start.

Love nearly all his policy actions so far. I'm not convinced he'll go wholesale anti trade. He did raise steel tariffs, but every President since Washington seem to have a thing about protecting the steel industry. It's like a right of passage. We'll see.

Doofus, Crooked is corrupt and she deserves a long stretch in jail or execution.

Steve said...

Where do you get your wingnut anti Hillary news from, then? Zero hedge, like monty always says?

Slate, Vox, The Guardian, The Atlantic, NYT, WAPO, and now Axios - all good sources of information. You might recall that Krugman (and others) were especially annoyed that the MSM promoted the Comey re-investigation of Hillary during the campaign as if it was incredibly important - when it ended up, as lots of people could have guessed, going no where.

The Hillary email bulldust was always completely misunderstood by people like you who have never worked around classified information and have no idea about how it can be over or misclassified. (Yes, I did sometimes work with it in my previous job. Got a pretty good secret from the 1980's too, I reckon...)