Update: Gee, aren't the Blair and Bolt blogs showing a lack of curiosity about this story? Yeah, for Blair it's all "frightbats" and Lefty Turnbull is going down, and (any minute now) "Jonathan Green was wrong 10 years ago, ahahahaha". With Bolt - Lefty Turnbull is going down; immigration, grrr; Muslims, and climate change, ha!
Update 2: Over at the Catallaxy open thread: "What story about 3 key members on Trump's campaign going to a meeting hoping to be fed damaging intelligence on Hillary Clinton from the Kremlin? I must have missed that. Oh look - someone is talking about a car tax. Ahhhagggg, Turnbull is evil."
Update 3: Vox notes that John Oliver got it right a few months ago:
On March 5, the host of the HBO comedy show Last Week Tonight started a segment called “Stupid Watergate,” which he described as “a scandal with all the potential ramifications of Watergate, but where everyone involved is stupid and bad at everything.”Update 4: Yes, as expected, the Self Inflicted Culture War Blindness (incurable) has made an appearance at Catallaxy.
Sad what stupidity and hypocrisy being a Culture Warrior brings, hey?
Update 5: And here's my sometimes visitor, apparently suggesting that if Trump responded like a third world dictator and organised a distracting show trial, it would all be Hillary's (or "the Left's") own fault. What a weird comment:
you know what? I don't particularly care about the Russians.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand the paranoia and hatred against them.
Putin's guys may have just ended the life of the leader of ISIS but this was virtually not reported in the MSM because of their hatred of Russia. Putin has been the only guy to have taken a sensible position on Syria ((go Assad!) and is a statesman compared to the Jihadi sponsoring west who want Syrian women to go around in burkas
I was sick of the whole Russia issue and thinking everyone should shut up and wait for the investigation to table a report. This is different though because they accepted the meeting knowing full well they would be provided with assistance against HRC. That's a very stupid thing to do. Nonetheless now the news is over once again let's just wait for the report.
ReplyDeleteJason this isn't really about Russia alone but rather collusion with a foreign power for the purpose of winning an election. I know what you are getting at, the Russia paranoia thing is overblown but I'm not a fan of Putin because so many of his enemies seem to die. :) It doesn't matter what we think, my impression is that in the USA even drinking vodka might be viewed as treasonous.
Jason, I think it fair to say the following:
ReplyDelete* Americans are historically sensitive to the issue of collusion with foreign powers;
* the Republicans would be absolutely calling for Hillary's blood if her campaign manager and daughter had been to such a meeting;
* Putin's project to reassert Russian geo-political power in competition with the US in many respects. Hence, playing the "don't be too tough on them" sympathy card with North Korea, getting friendly with Erdogan, and insertion into the Middle East. Occasionally, the result of this may be something arguably better than what the Americans might have been aiming for - but I wouldn't be crowing too much about Syria or anything to do with the Middle East - given that it's a complete and utter mess and the tactics of who to support in what conflict can be unclear and fluid.
* Putin runs a country with a state media, almost certainly authorises "hits" against perceived enemies, has unknown wealth hidden away (like Trump), encourages homophobia, and is (almost certainly) is now using cyberhacking and cyber propaganda to try to influence other nation's elections to get the result he wants.
No, nothing to worry about at all, there...
Here's a quote:
"In a rare public speech, Alex Younger, the head of the British foreign intelligence service, MI6, said recently: “The connectivity that is at the heart of globalization can be exploited by states with hostile intent to further their aims deniably. They do this through means as varied as cyber-attacks, propaganda, or subversion of democratic process.” He went on: “The risks at stake are profound and represent a fundamental threat to our sovereignty; they should be a concern to all those who share democratic values.” "
I find your shrug of the shoulders about Putin and Russia interference with, like, actual democracies, very puzzling.
What's been done that is illegal, Stepford.
ReplyDeleteWhere you should be looking is Comey who did release individual memos who broke the law.
Putin's guys may have just ended the life of the leader of ISIS but this was virtually not reported in the MSM because of their hatred of Russia.
ReplyDeleteHey, hey, but Trump jr spoke to a Wussian!
0h noes, he actually spoke to a Wussian? How could he!
"Putin runs a country with a state media"
ReplyDeleteLike most of the third world (sorry to use that now politically incorrect term but it works)
"almost certainly authorises "hits" against perceived enemies"
- Agree this is a problem if done in other countries
"has unknown wealth hidden away (like Trump)"
- yawn. like Turnbull too if he has good tax advisers
"encourages homophobia,"
actually all the uproar is about is that he would never allow a program like Safe Schools. Other third world countries have far worse policies
"try to influence other nation's elections"
Like Israel, China, and the US among others
JC, I see you're taking your leads from Gateway Pundit, an idiot, and (if monty is right) Zero Hedge conspiracists.
ReplyDeleteAs usual, you latch onto any propaganda that suits.
Whether or not Trump Jnr broke a law seems still moot - but there are many US lawyers saying yes, he probably has, even though you've turned up one who says "I don't think so."
As monty keeps saying, there's a way to go yet in this.
The facts are nonetheless that Trump Jnr and likely many others in the Trump camp have lied blatantly about their attempts to get Russian (meaning, Kremlin) dirt on Hillary.
Given the chronic lying and reversals of Trump Snr on every topic under the sun, it would hardly be surprising to find out in future that he had been told of such efforts, and that he just thought "cool, Putin likes me so much he wants to help."
I would also not be surprised to find if some in the Trump camp were more deeply involved, in financial terms, with such attempts.
It's always been a complete nonsense to think, after it was confirmed that the intelligence agencies were very concerned about Russian interference and meetings between those in the Trump camp with Russians, that this was all just "fake news".
But the power of the internet and Fox News has dumbed down the Right so much, and sent them into a decade long echo chamber of propaganda wherein every claim against Democrats, but none against their Manbaby President and his team, are true, it's an incredible situation for democracy.
"almost certainly authorises "hits" against perceived enemies"
ReplyDelete- Agree this is a problem if done in other countries
So you're OK with government hits on perceived enemies of the state, as long as it's done on Russian soil?
So you're OK with government hits on perceived enemies of the state, as long as it's done on Russian soil?
ReplyDeleteThree enemies of the state I can think of.....
Tell me there would be rioting in the streets if you, Homer Paxton and Monster received the tinsie weenie Polonium shot. I don't think so.
Hey JC, doesn't the fact that the NYT was having the Trump Jnr story leaked to them by "White House advisers" tell you something? Like, that the advisers know this is bad news, and they want to make sure it's pinned on the right person?
ReplyDeleteEven Trump hasn't tweeted anything other than his short one in support of Jnr - which I think is an indication that he is being told by lawyers "Donald, this is serious - you could stuff things up royally with one careless tweet. Do not tweet about it." (Of course, he might go ahead and tweet anyway - he is an idiot after all.)
But no, all the Trumpkins in Catallaxy and on Fox News are all "it's good - who cares?"
Back to Jason:
ReplyDeleteYou know I don't spend a lot of time admiring Gay Pride parades and ostentatious displays of sexuality of any kind, but even I can see that in a nation which is traditionally very against homosexuals ( despite being not very religious - strangely*), actual government laws to prohibit "gay propaganda" are going to help perpetuate and signal endorsement of gay bashings and maltreatment of all kinds.
And how bad is that in Russia? Pretty bad, according to this article**:
"Between 2011 and 2016, homophobes murdered at least 149 people across Russia. Going by media reports, gay men are the most frequent victims of all these crimes — in 2011 alone, the victims we know of include 47 gay men, nine lesbians and two transgender people."
* From the Atlantic - why is Russia so homophobic?:
Only 16 percent of Russians today say homosexuality should be accepted by society, compared with 42 percent in nearby (and also formerly communist) Poland.
Interestingly, Russians buck a major trend in modern homophobia: more religious countries are far more likely to be less accepting of homosexuality. But Russia and China seem to reject both God and gays. Russia ranks as one of the least devout countries on earth, with only 33 percent of Russians saying religion was very important in their daily life in 2009.
** https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/alexander-kondakov/putting-russia-s-homophobic-violence-on-map
And another thing (to Jason): why keep saying "like third world countries"? I thought Russia counted as industrialised and a major world power, even though its levels of corruption may well be at third world levels.
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of excuse is it, anyway, to say that a close to autocratic government with major problems with corruption, political murders, territorial expansion (oh look, an airliner got shot down by some pro Putin separtists) and offering cover for murderous nuts up to and including Kim Jong-un is not so bad, because some other countries are worse?
Have you been taking hand wave lessons from CL and dover beach?
.Hey JC, doesn't the fact that the NYT was having the Trump Jnr story leaked to them by "White House advisers" tell you something? Like, that the advisers know this is bad news, and they want to make sure it's pinned on the right person? .
ReplyDeleteWhat's illegal about it? How do you know the White House leaked the story?
Geez, the WAPO and NYT and Axios have all talked about White House turmoil over who is leaking (from within the WH). Do you only trust Breitbart and Fox News? Its me S, btw.
ReplyDeleteIts me S, btw. .
ReplyDeleteI don't know who "S" is nor do I care. So speculation is now evidence in leftwing circles? Lol.
Mexico actively gets involved in US elections to the point where it sends emissaries to the US and how gives to vote pamphlets to Mexicans. That's okay though because they vote D'rat.
I just googled various terms for Mexico and how to vote cards in America and came up with a blank. Where is this reported?
ReplyDeleteAnd S is me, you twit.